022: BEVERAGES - Cocktails

Phil

I don't know if he listens to this show, but if he hears this. Knowing Mark, he's going to jump over the moon with excitement.

Chris

Maybe I don't know. Here's going to be annoyed that he's associated with us now.

Phil

No shot, no shot. Good old Mark. W happy new year. this is the way to end the year.

Chris

thanks, Phil. Happy new year to you too. I don't know if I mentioned it, but uh, I'm kind of ready to be done with this year. So I know

Phil

Oh my gosh.

Chris

to you, Phil, but I might just go to sleep now, so that uh, it's 20, 21,

Phil

you know, my disposition is relatively positive. Generally have a pretty good outlook on life that said this year sucked, man. I hated everything about 2020.

Chris

it was a full year full of. Challenging and good and downright terrible, but it was a full year, I would say.

Phil

Unless your name is Jeff Bezos. This is a bad, bad year.

Chris

Well, we had a kid and we bought a new house that we love and we started a podcast. You and I didn't have a kid together. I had a kid with my wife, but you and I started a podcast together in case that was confusing at all.

Phil

Whose name is on the mortgage. You or me?

Chris

I just joined Phil.

Phil

Yeah, our kid is the beneficiary to the house.

Chris

Yeah, I wouldn't have it any other way. So I

Phil

You are my work

Chris

there's been some, there's been some guests.

Phil

Now there've been some highs and lows, but that's, that's really what, 2020 was it? It wasn't just like all bad, but the, the peaks and the valleys, and then the distance between them, it was just so exhausting, you know?

Chris

Yeah. I mean like the distance between those could be 12 minutes, it felt like.

Phil

Absolutely. Like super, super good. And then, and then super, super bad. We had so many challenges with our business. We have, we've had a family only members getting really sick and that's, that's been really tough. And then like hitting, hitting the trending charts in our podcasts like that. Couldn't like this, this year could not have gone better in terms of this little project that we started. And so, man, I'm excited to see what 2021 has. I'm excited to build on what we've had. And I'm excited to forget what, what hasn't, you know?

Chris

Can't think of a better way to forget then your suggestion of a cocktails episode show.

Phil

Oh, let's do some forgetting. That's forget. 2020 with the cocktails episode, this is going to be fun. Boy, my cocktail that I've made for this episode is a bit frothy. Wait, hold on. Let me give it up. Yep. That's delicious. That's really good.

Chris

Well-balanced you might say.

Phil

It's got a cherry garnish, as you can see here. Uh, This is just a Merino. I like cocktails with, with cherries.

Chris

Uh, It's hard to go wrong with a twist though. There's something about the bright citrus that I just love. So honestly, like think I would actually prefer a martini with a twist to an olive. Most of the time, there's just something about the brightness and maybe it depends on the type of gin, but there's something about the brightness of, of citrus. And that might be why I love old fashions.

Phil

I'm just going to highlight one super quick thing. You just said that, you know, the different types of Jennifer martini. Yeah. There's like this common misconception that a martini is made with vodka and there are vodka martinis, and they're delicious, but a martini is actually made with gin.

Chris

correct

Phil

We don't want to upset James Bond. Again, nothing, nothing wrong with, with the vodka martini, but you're going to have to specify that Yep. Jen,

Chris

Jen is definitely my preference for a martini. I'm not, not, not super crazy about vodka. If we're going to be honest,

Phil

What about a Moscow mule?

Chris

I can, I can do that. I, I enjoy one of those, honestly. Uh, There's enough. masking

Phil

for as hot as it gets here, it's such a good summer drink.

Chris

yeah, I think, I think weather definitely plays a part in. Beverage selection. I think there are some that are just classic and you can go to I'd absolutely like anytime of the year. But kind of given all of that. What are some of your favorites, Phil?

Phil

okay. Before I jump into my favorites, Just jumping back super quick. I just thought of this. I hadn't planned on mentioning this, but did you ever watch mad men

Chris

I actually didn't know.

Phil

really like Don? Draper's not your boy.

Chris

Nah, I haven't even seen a single episode to be honest

Phil

I feel like you're missing out. Yeah. I think it's on Netflix. Fairly certain of that.

Chris

might have to give it a go.

Phil

Do you just want to like cut from this and just go watch an

Chris

I'll, I'll get back to you once I've finished the series.

Phil

Okay. Hello again. How is, how is bad man?

Chris

So great sound great believe I haven't watched that before.

Phil

There's so much of that show that taught me about cocktails. Just like the way they would order their drinks, like the, the etiquette of ordering your cocktail. But the way I discovered the Negroni, which is absolutely on my list for one of my favorite cocktails was when one of the characters from the show, I think his name was Sal. He goes to a bar, any orders, compari with a twist. And I was just reminded of it. When you, when you mentioned, you know, it's, it's hard to beat a twist and a cocktail. so compari is like this little Italian super bitter, liquor, I guess, is what you could call it. And it kind of tastes like orange peel. For lack of a better term. Like it's that, it's that intense of a flavor of that bitter. Anyways, he, he orders compiled with a twist and I was like, Ooh, I'm going to do that. I don't know what he just ordered, but I'm going to do it. So I go, I was actually in a United airlines club at Denver international airport and I wrote a compiler with a twist and like one guy just like turns his head and looks at me like. Did that did that young child disorder? What I think he disordered. So they bring it to me and it was my first time having it.

I didn't know what I was getting so intense, but I loved it. I fell in love with the flavor of like that bitterness and then started Googling. Like, what does it go in? Is it always just served by itself and turns out it's the staple ingredient to an agronomy and thus began my love affair with the Negroni. It's probably my favorite cocktail, Chris. It's my go-to like you were saying, you got to have a go-to and that's that's mine.

Chris

I can enjoy a Negroni in the right environment. I think if, if I'm feeling like something that has that level of bitterness, I've got to be honest, Phil.

Phil

The Boulevard EA takes the Negroni and it gives it muscle.

Chris

feel like it gives it balance I feel like the Negroni is just super bitter forward and you know, if you're subbing bourbon for that gin, bourbon is just so like. To me has like such a sweetness to it that it balances out the bitterness of the Campari better and I just, I just like bourbon, so that might be my personal preference coming out there. I can, I can enjoy Jen, but bourbon is definitely going to be, or, you know, whiskey in general is going to be more of my, like, go-to engine

Phil

Okay. So before we get too far down that road, for those that might be unfamiliar, are we doing this? Are we like going to talk about what goes in it and all that? Or are we just pretending like everybody's an expert.

Chris

no, we can, we can, break it down a little bit, I guess. Not that we're experts, but

Phil

We're not, might be an expert on drinking, but. It's certainly not an expert on anything else. So the Negroni is equal parts, Campari, gin, and sweet vermouth. And then Chris, correct me if I'm wrong. The Boulevard EA is exactly that sub bourbon for the gym. Okay. And then it's, it's typically served, in an old fashioned glass with an orange peel. I was kind of hoping you were going to debate me on that. And then I was just going to defer.

Chris

I was asking if you like preferred cocktails like that up or on the rocks.

Phil

So Negroni I'll take on the rocks and a Belleville Boulevardier

Chris

Okay. Do you feel like the ice helps with the bitterness? Yeah, okay, well, do you want to go through your list real quick? What's this talking about you? So, uh, so. that's at the top of your list there

Phil

I mean it's

Chris

just on the list.

Phil

yeah. It's I think it's on the list. It, does have to do with what I might be eating and sure. Weather plays a factor. I think it also has to do with what I'm wearing. You know, like if I'm in a, if I'm in a t-shirt and shorts in someone's backyard, I'm probably not going to order a Manhattan.

Chris

I might,

Phil

Uh, But the Manhattan is also on

Chris

there's never a wrong time for an old fashioned or a Manhattan fo or Sazeracs for that matter.

Phil

a little sassy. Is that on your list?

Chris

If I had a list, heck yeah, absolutely. Man, maybe I need to come up with a list. Okay, so kind of off the cuff here. Uh, If, if I had to come up with a list, obviously like some of the classics, you know, an old fashioned Manhattan, I also really like some of the new Orleans drinks, like the Sazerac and , that

Phil

Okay.

Chris

favorites. Okay. So, uh, VUCA, I fell it's equal parts, rye, cognac, and sweet vermouth. And then it has a bit of Benedictine and then. You're also going to, have a couple of dashes each of Angostura and Peychaud's, and you can garnish it with the cherry or that twist. I love Especially with the twist. It has that brightness and when it's well done, it's just so balanced. And I don't know. It's interesting, like how. For me, maybe drinks transport me to times and places more than food event.

Phil

yeah.

Chris

I don't know if that's sacrilegious to say on our, you know, yeah, I would say at least those, those four are. Are a, the top of my list.

Phil

Oh yeah. Tom Collins are delicious. I love that citrusy based to it.

Chris

Yeah, super refreshing. I think.

Phil

Chris. One of my favorite, like whole concepts with, the cocktails in general, isn't just the flavor, but also the presentation. And I mean, I kind of appreciate food presentation. Like if, if you know, something has played at super well or, you know, and I don't want to get too bougie with it, but, uh, that's certainly something that I look for when I'm going to a restaurant and like the presentation of a cocktail can look super. Super. Great. And okay. Side sidebar, but kind of relating back to this, did you ever see once upon a time in Hollywood?

Chris

Uh, Yes, no, we, we did watch that.

Phil

I love that. I mean, Terentino's like one of my favorites always has been, There's this one scene when to Caprio is like at his house, you know, like in middle of the night by himself rehearsing some lines and he makes himself a cocktail and he drops some egg whites and in the mixer and like, whatever comes out is like this super foamy frothy cocktail. And I had never seen them before. So I Googled it like as lame as it sounds, it was like, what did Leonardo DiCaprio make? And once upon a time in Hollywood and um, it turns out he makes a whiskey sour and the whiskey sour, uh, is also on my list here. And it's so, so good. But the only way to make a whiskey sour, as far as I'm concerned is with the egg whites. So drop in, drop in some egg whites in your, in your mixture, Shake the mother out of that. And it's going to create this beautiful frothy cocktail that you serve that to your guests. Oh my gosh. You're going to get some action

Chris

okay. that brings up an interesting, conversation points, Phil. I don't know what what's kind of interesting to me about all of it is um, I've been kind of a diving down this rabbit hole a little bit, like the cocktail rabbit hole. And, I'm not sure if you're familiar with a guy by the name of David, a Embry. so I'm very wrote a book back in, I want to say it was 1948 called the fine art of mixing drinks. And it's a really interesting book on obviously like cocktails. and I think it started to. You know, in a way that we've talked about a little bit with like some of our, kind of mother sauces is started to break down cocktails in a way that I felt like was way more approachable. And, I don't know. I guess in the past it felt like there were so many different recipes and you just had to memorize them all where, that's maybe not necessarily the case. Maybe, maybe there are some more building blocks kind of like we discovered with, with food. And so in, in the fine art of mixing drinks, basically like. He breaks cocktails down into two different types and then identifies six, primary drinks that most other drinks can be based on.

And kind of by doing those two things, identifying these like primary drinks that then really like you can start subbing different ingredients into, to create kind of all these derivative drinks. Even like the categorization of two primary drink categories, between those two things and then like really diving into ratios. Between your different components? I dunno, for some reason, for me, it just like really broke down all these walls and made it a whole lot more fun to kind of explore different things. And it also made it a lot more approachable as well.

Phil

Hmm. So what are the two categories alcoholic? And non-alcoholic.

Chris

yes.

Phil

really? Okay.

Chris

sours, sours and aromatics, six hour cocktails and aromatic cocktails. And he, he identifies this basic sour ratio for a cocktail. So the, the basic sour ratio for him is like a one to eight ratio. It's eight parts of whatever your base is, parts sour and one part sweet. And so with that basic ratio, you can kind of. Plug just about anything in, and maybe with a little bit of tweaking for ingredients, get something that's pretty well balanced tasty. And that is another thing that he kind of like really focuses in on is that, there shouldn't be just like a die hard formula for a drink. Because everybody's palette is different and every ingredient is different. So say you had a gin that was. Like super, super dry. You might want to change your ratio of, chin to vermouth to help cut that dryness a little bit and create a little bit more balance as opposed to, you know, like a agenda might be a little bit more neutral. You can pull back on the room with some. But kind of like in cooking, it's, it's one of those things that like you taste and you let your palette be like the final judge.

You have these recipes kind of as a guide, these ratios or specific recipes as, as a guide to kind of. Send you down the path, but what you like and what you feel like tastes good. Does the final judge.

Phil

I feel like I just saw color for the first time.

Chris

Honestly. Yeah, sure. You might be joking, but I felt that way if we're, if we're being honest. So the, the six major drinks that he. Outlines are the daiquiri, the Jack Rose, the old-fashioned, uh, Manhattan, a sidecar and a martini. And a lot of those. Do you follow the basic, sour ratio? So a daiquiri, the Jack Rose, which I've honestly never had, a aside car, for sure. Those all follow the one to eight sour ratio. So like half of those are half of those are sour that I guess half of those would be like your aromatic type cocktails. But I do think it's like super interesting that it gives you these like basic ratios that you can then just kind of play around with and explore different things. And obviously not every cocktail is going to fall into those specific, categories, but it is interesting to see like how many are, are actually like really close, just kind of derivatives of those.

Phil

Yeah, no doubt. When, when I started diving into those mother sauces. You know, like so far we've covered the Beshear Mel and the hollandaise, and sure. I'm, I may have been making some of those my whole life and not, not knowing it, but once I kind of got into how critical they are to a dish, that's when, and, and almost like the cooking theory behind it, like why it's used and how it's tweaked and what that ultimately turns into. That's when I feel like my mind kind of opened up to. how important cooking was and, and how I could be a better chef. So, I mean, TRG, this sounds like right up my alley, like, this is what I need, because I know what I like. And I've, I've made things that, you know, I've been curious about a recipe, so I'll Google it, like how to make a Manhattan and then a thousand recipes come up and I'll, typically choose something from Epicurious. Cause I really like, you know, there. as stupid as it sounds. I, I just liked their website and, you know, I think they, I think they describe cocktails. Well, sure. Yeah. But I didn't know that the Manhattan was, you know, one of these six critical what'd you call them.

Chris

They're the six basic cocktails that he

Phil

Okay. Okay.

Chris

of a Manhattan.

Phil

That like seems so foreign to me. And I also have not had a

Chris

Jack Rose yeah, so it's interesting. You, you can also kind of see how. Especially when you look at some of the sours, the recipes for the sours you're just subbing different things. So like a daiquiri in that one to eight, you know, you're. Bass is rum. Your sour is lime and your sweetest simple syrup, a Jack Rose. Your base is Apple Jack. Your sour is lemon juice and your sweet is granting. And then a sidecar, which I actually do really like side cars are great. Uh, your basis. Is like a, a cognac or Armagnac your sour is lemon. And then your sweet is uh, some type of orange look you're like or triple SAC. But you can kind of see how, like you can start to take that basic ratio and come up with a whiskey sour come up with, you know, like always.

Phil

See, I always thought bartending school was just like a bunch of flashcards,

Chris

yeah, I kind of thought that deal there's like so much to memorize,

Phil

Right. It makes sense. Yeah. These are these building blocks. Shoot. I'm going to show this off. I'm gonna invite some people over in 2021. Yeah. Go vaccinate.

Chris

one thing for me that I think really helped open a lot of this off was. having, like, honestly like to make drinks at home, you don't have to have the fanciest professional bartending equipment. But I do think the one thing for me that really kind of opened a lot of this up was being able to actually measure all the different ingredients. So, when Molly got me a jigger that I get, uh,

Phil

with a chigger You don't have those in Colorado. Do you?

Chris

No, no. no. I don't think so.

Phil

Sorry, we're derailing

Chris

But yeah. Being, being able to actually measure something out makes it replicatable and if you create something that you like, and you kind of know what those ratios are, you can make it again the same way. So I would say you don't need like a crazy cool cocktail shaker, if you can. Honestly, I prefer to drink stirred. So if, if you can just get some ice and a spoon. But make sure that you can actually measure out your ingredients.

Phil

You know, all the different types of glasses, you know, shoot, what do you mean? Or there's a cocktail glass and a high POL and an old fashioned glass and a Gibraltar. And honestly, half of those were probably the same thing, you know?

Chris

I like cocktails and coops.

Phil

Yep. Don't know what that is.

Chris

kind of.

Phil

I thought the cocktail glass was stemmed.

Chris

it's technically, technically a martini glass is not a martini glass. It's a cocktail glass, but a coop is not. It's it's not angular like a martini or like what you think of as a martini glass or a cocktail glass. A coop is like rounded, so,

Phil

what I thought. The cocktail glass was that rounded thingy.

Chris

okay. Yeah. So that that'd be like a coop. and a cocktail glass is what you think of as a martini glass.

Phil

Okay. Interesting. See foundations. Typically when I order a Manhattan, it comes in a coop

Chris

I feel like cocktails in coops or cocktail glasses are going to be up aware in a.

Phil

Like an old fashioned glass would be on the rocks generally. the same thing.

Chris

Okay. So I think if a high ball is like a taller glass,

Phil

Basically like uh,

Chris

I don't know if any of them would be a pint class, like a high ball is going to be closer to pint.

Phil

That's what I mean.

Chris

Yeah. Closer, not necessarily the same, uh, volume I think is probably volume

Phil

you ordered a long Island ice tea,

Chris

That'd be, it that'd be the high ball.

Phil

that'd be a high ball. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Got it. Good little shorty guy. Thanks for being my bartender for the evening. What are you drinking by the way? Have we covered that? Yeah.

Chris

No, but, I did have a Manhattan, actually. It is. It's done. I didn't put it in a cube because I thought that'd be too like uppity for my closet that I record my podcasts, but I'm going to be honest. I had one in the cube last night and it was great

Phil

Yeah, I've been making Manhattans probably more than anything else. Just as of late really enjoy those things.

Chris

It is hard to go wrong. Super tasty. Maybe that'll be that. That'll be my drink of 2021.

Phil

Well, what pairs best with muscles

Chris

Well, honestly, that's what we had with with our muscles. Last night,

Phil

Manhattan? It is, and I'll make a mocktail for my wife, just cause she's into those lately.